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Old 05-08-2012, 11:50 PM   #16
drksdr
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luinglin View Post
Simple fact guys:

People like Meru and myself are unhappy with the lack of tactical combat in this game. I'm unhappy to the extent that I was about to buy it, read about the combat on the forums and am now not going to buy it. That's a lost sale. Now I'm by far not the only person who feels this way. I might represent 20%, 40% or even over 50% of the POTENTIAL market for this game. The exact figure isn't important, whatbis important is that I represent a SIGNIFICANT percentage of potential sales that have been lost because of this bad design choice.

Now reverse the situation. What if this game DID have tactical combat, but if you preferred not to control your ships you get a pretty cinematic like you do now and can make a few "general" tactical choices before the battle starts. Would any of you folks whomlike the current combat system NOT buy the game under those conditions, because you have the option of tactical combat? My guess is no, none of you would call that a deal breaking situation.

That is the simple truth guys. The design choice to not include a tactical combat component has alienated a SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE of fans and potential customers. The question isn't whether the game can be enjoyable without tactical combat, it probably can in a Spaceward Ho! Kind of way. The question is, was this a good choice for the success of the game. Remember the games success is what drives expansions, fan mods and ultimately sequels and other good projects by the devs.

Simple fact;

that this method of combat is so completely different from most current empire-builders is vastly refreshing and much more likely to draw more potential customers in than they would ever lose.

Why keep doing the same thing over and over again?

They have something unique here and it will pay off for them BIG time.
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:25 AM   #17
deanco
 
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I'm just happy the OP definitively answered this debate several posts ago, so I don't have to go participate in that stupid poll.
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luinglin View Post
Simple fact guys:

People like Meru and myself are unhappy with the lack of tactical combat in this game. I'm unhappy to the extent that I was about to buy it, read about the combat on the forums and am now not going to buy it. That's a lost sale. Now I'm by far not the only person who feels this way. I might represent 20%, 40% or even over 50% of the POTENTIAL market for this game. The exact figure isn't important, whatbis important is that I represent a SIGNIFICANT percentage of potential sales that have been lost because of this bad design choice.

Now reverse the situation. What if this game DID have tactical combat, but if you preferred not to control your ships you get a pretty cinematic like you do now and can make a few "general" tactical choices before the battle starts. Would any of you folks whomlike the current combat system NOT buy the game under those conditions, because you have the option of tactical combat? My guess is no, none of you would call that a deal breaking situation.

That is the simple truth guys. The design choice to not include a tactical combat component has alienated a SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE of fans and potential customers. The question isn't whether the game can be enjoyable without tactical combat, it probably can in a Spaceward Ho! Kind of way. The question is, was this a good choice for the success of the game. Remember the games success is what drives expansions, fan mods and ultimately sequels and other good projects by the devs.
Slightly offtopic, But you use significant percentage in a totally wrong context, unfounded whatever. The percentages you used are based on pure speculation. And the reasoning you use is pretty flawed
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Old 05-09-2012, 07:27 AM   #19
BoogieManFL
 
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I don't much care for the combat in this game either as I enjoy using tactics and take special enjoyment in brilliant surgical victories born out of strategy, but I can see how it fits this game so I don't let it bother me too much. I just wish the cinematic battle camera chose more angles and also allowed for purely manual control as well.
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:09 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by TomoSojiro View Post
Slightly offtopic, But you use significant percentage in a totally wrong context, unfounded whatever. The percentages you used are based on pure speculation. And the reasoning you use is pretty flawed
go check out the poll~
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Old 05-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #21
drksdr
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by Meru448 View Post
go check out the poll~
You mean the poll where it says 80% of the 'people' think "it has areas that need growing."?

pfft. That's pretty damn obvious, considering its an alpha.

i've read those pages and most of the people commenting seem relatively happy with the hands-off combat system.

Most of them just want more terrain, camera controls or even just fleet dispositions and targeting priorities.

If this poll was supposed to prove a point about ES needing more hands on combat, it does a jarate-poor job of it...
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:46 PM   #22
luinglin
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drksdr View Post
Simple fact;

that this method of combat is so completely different from most current empire-builders is vastly refreshing and much more likely to draw more potential customers in than they would ever lose.

Why keep doing the same thing over and over again?

They have something unique here and it will pay off for them BIG time.
The game is already losing sales and you think it will "pay of BIG time"?

Reach for the Stars and it's remake were one of the first 4X game and they used a very similar combat system. It's hardly refreshing, in fact it's lazy.
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Old 05-11-2012, 05:54 AM   #23
drksdr
 
 
 
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Originally Posted by luinglin View Post
The game is already losing sales and you think it will "pay of BIG time"?

Reach for the Stars and it's remake were one of the first 4X game and they used a very similar combat system. It's hardly refreshing, in fact it's lazy.

losing sales...?

so much lol.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:16 AM   #24
luinglin
 
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Originally Posted by drksdr View Post
losing sales...?

so much lol.
Saying 'lol' doesn't make you right.

I was about to buy it, I found out that it didn't have tactical combat and changed my mind.

That's a lost sale.

When my friends ask me about it I will tell them to stay away, those are lost sales.

Other people have posted saying exactly the same thing, those are also lost sales.

I'm glad you think the game is great. Now try to wrap your head around the possibility that just because you like it, doesn't make it a well designed game.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:18 AM   #25
CurvEdge
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luinglin View Post
The game is already losing sales*
*Citation needed please. Got any figures and what source? This is interesting because it's an alpha as you know.

Endless Space seems to be doing well in the Steam top 100

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

regards
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Old 05-11-2012, 07:03 AM   #26
drksdr
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luinglin View Post
Saying 'lol' doesn't make you right.

I was about to buy it, I found out that it didn't have tactical combat and changed my mind.

That's a lost sale.

When my friends ask me about it I will tell them to stay away, those are lost sales.

Other people have posted saying exactly the same thing, those are also lost sales.

I'm glad you think the game is great. Now try to wrap your head around the possibility that just because you like it, doesn't make it a well designed game.
i'll do that if you do the same.

How about you wrap your head around the fact that its a pretty solid combat mechanic and most everyone else loves it to bits and YOU just dont like it.
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:29 AM   #27
neuromancer
 
 
 
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by luinglin View Post
Simple fact guys:

People like Meru and myself are unhappy with the lack of tactical combat in this game. I'm unhappy to the extent that I was about to buy it, read about the combat on the forums and am now not going to buy it. That's a lost sale. Now I'm by far not the only person who feels this way. I might represent 20%, 40% or even over 50% of the POTENTIAL market for this game. The exact figure isn't important, whatbis important is that I represent a SIGNIFICANT percentage of potential sales that have been lost because of this bad design choice.

Now reverse the situation. What if this game DID have tactical combat, but if you preferred not to control your ships you get a pretty cinematic like you do now and can make a few "general" tactical choices before the battle starts. Would any of you folks whomlike the current combat system NOT buy the game under those conditions, because you have the option of tactical combat? My guess is no, none of you would call that a deal breaking situation.

That is the simple truth guys. The design choice to not include a tactical combat component has alienated a SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE of fans and potential customers. The question isn't whether the game can be enjoyable without tactical combat, it probably can in a Spaceward Ho! Kind of way. The question is, was this a good choice for the success of the game. Remember the games success is what drives expansions, fan mods and ultimately sequels and other good projects by the devs.
You're applying a vastly exaggerated sense of importance and relevance to your own opinion as well as to the financial impact you and your 'friends' will have on this, or any games, sales figures.

Simple fact: Your opinion is not fact.

Try wrapping your head around the concept that just because you prefer a different style of combat doesn't mean that it's a poorly designed game.

I'm also curious to know who exactly appointed you to the post of Glorious Everlasting God-King of 4X Game Design?
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:42 AM   #28
d10sfan
 
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neuromancer View Post
You're applying a vastly exaggerated sense of importance and relevance to your own opinion as well as to the financial impact you and your 'friends' will have on this, or any games, sales figures.

Simple fact: Your opinion is not fact.

Try wrapping your head around the concept that just because you prefer a different style of combat doesn't mean that it's a poorly designed game.

I'm also curious to know who exactly appointed you to the post of Glorious Everlasting God-King of 4X Game Design?
Exactly. Not every 4x space game has to have a particular style of combat. The fact that they are trying something different, and with how well it works, the core concept of it, is great. Still needs work of course, that's what an alpha is for.

Personally, and many others feel this way, the current combat system is great and it fits well into this game. I don't really understand why some people are saying it feels "tacked on". It seems that a real-time combat mode would feel much stranger in this type of game, and not work as well.

This style of combat works well for this game, and the developers designed it pretty well.
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:44 AM   #29
Hellmaca
 
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Combat is a deal breaker. All this work to do what? Roll over 100 stars. Bah! Shallow!
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #30
Zelif
 
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Loosing sales ? Everyone I have shown this to in my friends say they are going to get it or have bought it(bar 1).... How is one game meant to appeal to every single person ?
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